The Exec: ‘You Need Naysayers,” Says Geisinger Health Plan’s President

“It truly is vital to not count on just one particular information perspective,” notes Kurt Wrobel, who has helmed the integrated supply network’s payer enterprise since 2020.

“There are a couple of of us out there,” suggests Kurt Wrobel, referring to the actuaries who now lead U.S. well being designs.

Wrobel’s trajectory from main actuary to CFO to president of Geisinger Well being Program (GHP) is reasonably exclusive, generating him fast to figure out many others in the field. (“There’s also Krista Hoglund, the CEO of Stability Overall health Prepare.”)

But each and every government journey is distinct, which includes Wrobel’s major a Pennsylvania payer that serves somewhere around 500,000 Medicare Gain, Medicaid, CHIP, Marketplace, and employer team associates.

In an exclusive job interview with HealthLeaders, Wrobel in depth management transitions throughout disruption, health care reform’s affect on actuarial science, and why it truly is crucial to query data.

From chief actuary to president

“I commenced my occupation in massive-group pricing and underwriting for more substantial insurers [PacifiCare Health System, UnitedHealth Group, and Humana]. It is really a good way to get the facts on a specific line of business, but a smaller organization can give you a broad vantage stage throughout all strains of business enterprise. As an actuary, you contact a great deal of details and get a breadth of expertise across all traces of small business that you would not automatically get in other professions or businesses.”

Leading through disruption

Wrobel transitioned to the top rated situation at GHP at a specifically complicated time.

“I turned interim president at Geisinger at the commence of COVID when no one was all-around. The main revenue officer and COO had left and it took a while to fill these roles, including the main actuary and CFO role I experienced held,” claims Wrobel, including: “I wore people two hats, as properly as president, for about 9 months. There was a whole lot heading on. The draw back is you have to be a minimal a lot less forward-contemplating whilst you might be receiving troubles solved.”

Wrobel is speedy to realize the issues other folks were being resolving.

“I’d incorporate that what I went via is just not anyplace close to what the nurses and physicians went via in the course of COVID. The way they arrived together—I have so much regard for them and their relationship to 1 yet another and the neighborhood.”

Pictured: Kurt Wrobel, president of Geisinger Health Plan. Image courtesy of Geisinger.

How health care reform modified actuarial science

An actuary since the mid-1990s, Wrobel has an insider’s point of view on how the Economical Care Act impacted not only his career but the healthcare sector at big.

“The place the occupation experienced traditionally been concentrated on everyday living and pension, health and fitness coverage has grow to be progressively additional critical. The actuary’s function in health care has grown for the reason that the sector is extra intricate and now much more oriented to danger.”

Wrobel adds: “I relatively joke that the Inexpensive Care Act and value-primarily based treatment built actuaries also important. The ACA and VBC released extra uncertainty and enhanced the have to have for actuaries in health care.”

Circumstance and issue: risk adjustment.

“Threat adjustment publish deal is difficult. It truly is challenging to get a perception of genuine performance, danger scores, possibility payments, and to establish liability—especially in the early many years of the ACA. It really is very good that it can be grow to be calmer compared to the early days of the ACA. There’s much more details.”

Data isn’t really every thing

Wrobel identifies himself as a “believer in using wisdom and uncomplicated knowledge analysis to response company concerns.” He has written extensively on the need to have for, and electricity of, simplicity in complicated fields—from actuarial science to insurance plan to healthcare.  

It will take extra than knowledge, and definitely more than 1 watch of it, to not only arrive at the greatest conclusions but frame the very best questions. 

“There is the assure of Huge Details and the sector that has grown up close to it,” suggests Wrobel.

“There are men and women who have the incentive to drive far more details on an organization. It is essential to not depend on just one data view, but appear at various sources, the market and benchmarks.”

Wrobel provides: “People can tumble in appreciate with a tale and then request the info to assist it. It’s called narrative bias. It can be human nature but there is certainly a serious danger—think of Vietnam as properly as how details is employed incorrectly in elections. You will need naysayers who will just take a diverse placement. Self-discipline around this is important.”

Wrobel has published about not only narrative bias but the numerous other blind spots that leaders can fall prey to—whether they are from technological or nontechnical backgrounds or make choices in the arenas of war, finance, politics, or health care.

Wrobel is aware of this in his position as GHP’s president as he balances his actuarial track record with the health and fitness plan’s mission and eyesight, noting: “You nevertheless want to dive into the details, but the worst factor is to get caught up in them. You happen to be the leader of a broad business who requires to control persons and method. I have to capture myself at times and have acquired to have confidence in the group to get the aspects proper.”

Payers and providers: The state of the union

Quite a few health care discussions appear to be to touch on payer-provider relations. Problems abound, even for IDNs, but Wrobel is optimistic.

“It is really genuine that at Geisinger, we take a various point of view. We perspective providers as critical companions, extremely considerably so, in producing possibility-dependent arrangements and aligning incentives.”

Results lies in a typical reason.

“We’re all striving to do the same point: produce significant-high-quality, economical care,” suggests Wrobel. “It truly is in our DNA and is turning into element of the DNA of other payers and companies. There is some thaw in those relationships, especially as payer and provider roles have develop into additional interchangeable and symbolize additional fiscal challenges.”

The GHP president adds: “Everything that moves us from fee-for-assistance [FFS] and toward larger alignment is a good.”

“Like transferring an plane carrier”

Wrobel expands on the evolution from FFS to worth-primarily based treatment, noting the want for, but problem, of adjust to healthcare’s reimbursement framework.

“The economic incentive that’s important is transferring away from common FFS. Two of the biggest developments here are the escalating complexity of the person, team, and Medicare Edge marketplaces and the go toward value-based mostly treatment.”

Wrobel provides: “Every person understood we did not have a excellent, sustainable procedure. The go to VBC has been regular but slower than anticipated for the reason that health care is complex—like moving an aircraft carrier. You won’t be able to modify healthcare facility, medical doctor, and payer habits on a dime.”

“Hospitals are crucial”

As the chief of a health strategy intently integrated with its suppliers, Wrobel holds Geisinger’s hospitals in substantial regard.

“Hospitals are important. I thoroughly understand their worries but have respect for what hospitals and well being programs do. It can be not just about saving cash or the range of price-based mostly contracts you have,” says Wrobel.

He adds: “Hospitals are the jewel of quite a few communities. Indeed, we want to turn into far more productive. But couple industries give anything a lot more significant than health care. There is only no comparison.”